My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2013.10.28 18:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
chaosgrimm wrote:Mer88 wrote:chaosgrimm wrote:I played a little more with the vargur and just wanted to log some feedback on the thread.
I have decided to give up on the notion of a 'optional bastion mode' and am switching focus to making the vargur work well with limited mobility.
In PvE, the vargur feels like it is missing something in the offensive spectrum:
= 1400 fits =
1400s kinda suck compared to other long range weapon systems. They are all about dat alpha. Other than that, the sustained dps is poor, which doesn't suit PvE well. This makes AC fits (as with the TQ version) a preferred choice.
= AC fits =
The typical minmatar mobility compliments ACs well because ACs live in falloff. However, ACs don't sync well with the marauders' version of mobility, esp in bastion mode. This lack of synergy is compounded by the stacking penalities and untraditional 1:1 optimal/falloff projection bonus given by bastion.
= Suggestions =
Keep in mind I'm just spitballing and i am by no means saying that all of these suggestions should be done:
Set bastion's falloff bonus to twice the value of the optimal bonus (possibly in conjunction with reducing the optimal bonus).
Remove bastion's stacking penalty (possibly in conjunction with the prior suggestion)
Add additional falloff the vargur hull.
Add additional dps via bandwidth/ sentry drones to increase overall dmg at range with the vargur
Add additional turret dps to the vargur i remember people cry about not able to fit 1200mm on the vargur w/o any power grid modules. now they can fit 1400mm with ease and no one is excited about it. from my knowledge 1400 dps is about the same as rail guns. except 1400 can select damage type. with the slow rof, the faction ammo will be very cheap so it kinda works great for missions. Nah rails do around 11.5% more dps within optimal, have a better optimal, have less overkill, better tracking, and aren't penalized as harshly for missing.
The above is mostly accurate, however 11.5% does not make the artillery less viable vs rails unless you are shooting guristas or serpentis. Artillery will do more dps against angels and should be within 5% of sansha and blood raiders because of selectable damage types. The tracking curves are close enough that it doesn't matter and artillery projection is a little better over the curve, but you can use uranium to help offset that.
The graphs below are built with known rubicon data used in EFT, all below are subject to change:
Red : Kronos
Blue : Vargur
No transversal: http://i.imgur.com/uEp5aJs.jpg
Transversal: http://i.imgur.com/rcQ7V3o.jpg
Both are 5 damage mod builds, with identical tracking mods (1 TE, 1 SS TC), though the kronos' tank is significantly worse than the vargur's, however both are well within acceptable levels for missions. The kronos does have the ambit extension over the vargur but it's trivial.
[Vargur, Arty]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Gist B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Bastion Module I
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Ancillary Current Router I
[Kronos, Rails]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Bastion Module I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Hybrid Ambit Extension I
Yes these builds could be blinged more, yes they could go without the cap booster but the gains from another tracking computer are minimal. They could also roll without XYZ but I built them similar to my MWD machariel setup and I also wanted to get an MJD on there somehow because ship bonuses etc. They dps about as hard as you can, and they push it almost as far as you can, another tracking computer brings the 100km dps of the vargur from 712 to 667. It's not trivial but I'd prefer the cap booster.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3792003#post3792003 additional reading on the viability of artillery vargur. |